Friday, December 19, 2008

Is everyone who opposes gay marriage a hateful bigot?

No.  But make no mistake, we're talking about a bigoted point of view.

I'll challenge you to do this:  Re-read all the anti gay marriage screeds. Allllllllllll of them.  Then find me the one that actually articulates any specific, real, actual, tangible, measurable, quantitative, definite damage it would do to society that would justify governmental proscription.  I'll wait..........

Here's the problem with the conservative's argument.  If you believe that rights  are natural, and you know who you are, then you have to explain why ANY  minority must wait upon the largesse of the majority to exercise those rights.  I'll wait on that one too......

So while Huckabee et al try to argue that marriage has always been defined like it is now the point they're afraid to make is that they don't believe that gays deserve to be treated like everyone else because that might unzip the very fabric of society even though they can't begin to explain how that would work.

Bigots define people by what they are, not how they act.   There's no other way around it.


  1. I think that marriage has always been divided into 2 parts in our society. There is the legal construct, which is what a marriage license is all about, what divorce laws are based on, inheritance..etc. There there is the religious part, which is not required in the eyes of the law for the marriage to be legal. That is why you can be married by only getting a license and standing in front of the J.P. and never seeing a minister, but the reverse is not a legal marriage, i.e. standing in front of a minister but not getting a license. So, fine with me.. I am OK with any 2 people entering into what is basically a legally binding civil contract. The religious portion of it is up to that religion. If the Church of the Fantastic Farting Frogs does not want gay marriage it is up to that sect. Leave the civil system and courts out of it.

  2. This isn't rocket science. Let there be legal civil unions/contracts for the gays.

    Leave the marriages, i.e. spiritual unions, to heterosexual couples for the purpose of protecting offspring, and establishing a stable society.

  3. Explain how/why a gay union is neither spiritual or a stabilizing force in society. Take it a step further and explain how gay parents do a poorer job of protecting offspring than heteros who also adopt. Specifics.

    The irony in the defeat of Prop 8 is that it makes gay marriage inevitable because it has coalesced the movement into a specific response and society as a whole wont sustain the effort it takes to enforce blatant discrimination. It may be another 15-20 years but my grandkids wont have any idea what this fuss was all about.

  4. It is a spiritual (Christian) point of view originating from God. He said it is good and it is stabilizing.

    You'll have to check with Him for further explanation.


  5. That's fine if you and the folks in your church want to believe that and act accordingly. The larger point however yet unmade is why your feelings should predominate absent any real harm done to you, me or society in general.

    I want to be very clear that Im not calling you a bigot but you use a bigoted logic to make your point. You don't feel compelled to articulate actual societal harm because you see gays as fundamentally unequal in this regard simply because of what they are. I can't find another way to process that.

  6. A bigot is defined by having either hatred or intolerance of a group of people.

    People of faith don't have hatred of gays because we want them to have the right to a civil union that affords and protects them legal rights. Nor is it intolerance to support such an issue.

    I disagree with your premise.

  7. Denying a person the ability to express their relationships as they see fit when those choices do no harm to anyone is not a morally defensible position and it would be virtually impossible to arrive at that place without employing a bigot's logic. This is why gay marriage will be reality one day.

  8. If you're anti-gay marriage, you're pretty much anti-gay, no?